Braves trade Tex

[neutral88]

Although I do see some of the logic in the Braves trade, lets use some common sense here and not talk down Big Tex, for example, "Braves didn't loose much pop in the trade"...Seriously???Tex has 20 Hrs already this year, Kotchman has 12, that puts Tex on target for his normal high 30-low 40 in Hr's, and Kotchman on target fot a low 20 season....Thats a lot of Pop...Kotchan didn't miss any more normal playing time last year than any other player, and he could only muster 11 hr's, Tex was up in the 30's as ussual....Tex is also only 2 1/2 years older than Kotchman, so there is no huge age difference or anything...The trade tells me the Braves don't plan to be a contender for the next few years...Nothing wrong with that, thats just what kind of trade it was....But the braves did loose alot of pop, and the biggest feared power hitter in their lineup...

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although I do see some of the logic in the Braves trade, lets use some common sense here and not talk down Big Tex, for example, "Braves didn't loose much pop in the trade"...Seriously???Tex has 20 Hrs already this year, Kotchman has 12, that puts Tex on target for his normal high 30-low 40 in Hr's, and Kotchman on target fot a low 20 season....Thats a lot of Pop...Kotchan didn't miss any more normal playing time last year than any other player, and he could only muster 11 hr's, Tex was up in the 30's as ussual....Tex is also only 2 1/2 years older than Kotchman, so there is no huge age difference or anything...The trade tells me the Braves don't plan to be a contender for the next few years...Nothing wrong with that, thats just what kind of trade it was....But the braves did loose alot of pop, and the biggest feared power hitter in their lineup...</div></div>

So, you want Tex's 30-40 HR's this year when the Braves are likely out of contention, as opposed to the 25-30 that Kotchman can give them for 5-6 years from here on out if/when they sign him long term (which was almost certain they couldn't do with Tex). Trade 40 HR's to a contender in return for more youth, just as good or better defense, and the possibility of getting 125-180 HR's over the span of 5-6 years in return? Plus a pitcher? That's a great deal if you're the Braves and you knew for an almost certainty you wouldn't be able to sign Tex long term in his walk season.

And for the record:

Tex's #'s this season:
BA - .283
HR - 20
RBI - 78
OBP - .390
SLG - .512
SB - 0

Kotchman's #'s:
BA - .287
HR - 12
RBI - 54
OBP - .327
SLG - .448
SB - 2

Kotchman's #'s don't pale in comparison by no means--both guys have solid #'s. A little less power, but the guy has potential to have just as much power as Tex. And this season--both Tex & Kotchman have .998 fielding percentages--so you don't lose anything on that end, and Kotchman has more time in his career to just get better.

The Braves are entering rebuilding mode. They don't need a bunch of stars like Tex, they need solid centerpieces like Kotchman/Marek.

[neutral88]

alot of time??? Tex is 2 years older???

Like I said, i see the point in the trade, i said that above as well but evidently it was overlooked...

but as you numbers show, the Braves lost alot of pop...And gained nothing in return...So my statement stands on your stats...the braves lost alot of pop....I never said they were gonna be able to keep Tex...But to say they didn't loose much pop is crazy, they lost the most feared hitter in their lineup, for what now will probably be the 4th most feared, if even that high...

Like I said above, i see the point in the trade, but lets not act the Braves didn't loose anything...If the pitcher doesn't make it to the big stage, they basically got jack, cause Kotchman played all of last year and hit 11 hr, no sign this year isn't just some kind of fluke.....

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cause Kotchman played all of last year and hit 11 hr, no sign this year isn't just some kind of fluke..... </div></div>

Kotchman didn't "play" all of last year, he platooned. He played in 137 games, had 443 AB's, which is only about 70 more AB's than he has so far this season, and we're just past midway. He just this season became the Angels' starting 1B full-time.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the Braves lost some pop the 2nd half of this season...And gained alot of future potential in return...</div></div>

Fixed...though I didn't fix that, John Schuerholz came in my office and typed that for me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">alot of time??? Tex is 2 years older???</div></div>

In baseball time, that's a lot of time. Fall Leagues, offseason training w/your coaching staff, etc...that's a lot of developmental time that you weren't going to get with Tex because he was walking to greener pastures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they lost the most feared hitter in their lineup, for what now will probably be the 4th most feared, if even that high...</div></div>

Granted...Tex/Chipper/McCann/Francoeur is more intimidating to face than Chipper/McCann/Francoeur/Kotchman, but for the long run (and that's what matters here, not now) the latter foursome isn't a bad lineup to have as your top 4 hitters. Kotchman can only get better working with those 3 guys and hitting in that lineup. Also note that in the Braves lineup, you'll likely see Kotchman moving down to about the 5th spot in the lineup, not hitting 2nd like he was with the Angels. More opportunity to hit homers, more opportunity for RBI's. His K's may go up as a side effect, but then again--Tex has 70 K's so far this season, Kotchman only 23.

So even if they lost "pop", they got more consistent with the pretty good possibility of getting that "pop" back over the course of the next 5 years or so. That's a good solid trade. You're freaking out over them losing "pop" in the 2nd half of a season where they've fallen out of contention for the playoffs, when you should be looking towards what they did to build for the future to get back into contention.

[neutral88]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That's a good solid trade. You're freaking out over them losing "pop" in the 2nd half of a season where they've fallen out of contention for the playoffs, when you should be looking towards what they did to build for the future to get back into contention. </div></div>

Man, are you unaware that this whole conversation has been because,you are the one who originally said the braves didn't loose alot of pop, when in fact they did loose garaunteed pop, if they could afford it, for several years, there as absolutely no gaurantee to Kotchmans power, which so far, he has had none of...

How did they gain consistancy??? I can't wait to hear this explination....

I will repeat this for the third time, I undersstand the logic to the trade, but lets not act like it is a great deal in the bag...

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man, are you unaware that this whole conversation has been because,you are the one who originally said the braves didn't loose alot of pop, when in fact they did loose garaunteed pop, if they could afford it, for several years, there as absolutely no gaurantee to Kotchmans power, which so far, he has had none of...</div></div>

Are you unaware of the fact that the Braves are OUT OF CONTENTION THIS SEASON??? It doesn't matter what kind of pop they got or lost, guaranteed or not, because they're out of the race for all intents & purposes. Also--them trading Teixeira is a sign that they KNEW that they couldn't resign him, so unloading him while there was still a market for him (instead of two late-round compensatory picks in the draft), was the best option for them. You're acting like they could have afforded Teixeira, when reality says they couldn't.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did they gain consistancy??? I can't wait to hear this explination....</div></div>

Less K's, not too awful much less power, comparable fielding--and all for an extended period of time if/when they sign Kotchman long-term. That's more consistent than if they had kept Teixeira and he had hit 50 HR's in the 2nd half and hit .450...because it wouldn't have mattered because they're not going to the playoffs anyways--too many key guys injured, too far out of the race at this point in the season.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will repeat this for the third time, I undersstand the logic to the trade, but lets not act like it is a great deal in the bag...</div></div>

I hear you on understanding the trade. We can definitely agree to disagree that this is a good or a bad trade. I just think all real-world signs point to this being a positive for the Braves and their future, more than it would have been had they attempted to keep Teixeira and missed on him. Given those circumstances, I think it was a great deal by Schuerholz--you can think it was a lateral move or just a good move if you wish, but no way that the Braves actually "lost" on this one given all the circumstances.

[1inStripes]

The Braves lost a lot of pop for 2 months. Really thats all. There was a 95% chance the Braves wouldn't get Tex to resign because they couldn't afford him in the offseason. They gave up 4 players for him and relief pitcher last year. They needed to get something back for him this season since they will not be making the playoffs. Is Kotchman as good as Tex? No. Is it better to get him for Tex than to get nothing for Tex? Yes.